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SaintRay

Julio Jones Can Make History Sunday Night

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Just now, Dago said:

again....I didn't bring up wins originally. that was ozirus 

however, I think your position lacks merit and completely disregards the contributions of others on the team as well as what your team could have gotten with the draft picks it spent

 

My position lacks merit?

 

Rewind back to my original post, how did me saying that had more success than Micheal Thomas has to do with players that the Falcons "potentially could've gotten" if they had kept those picks during the 2011 draft?

 

Patriots and Browns(for quite some time) are examples of the pros and cons of having a lot of draft capital. More swings at it are nice, but that's only if your GM is competent at drafting talent.

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7 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

Also, saying the Falcons would've done better with all those picks is still speculation. Same with me saying that they could've done bad with those pick I admit.

 

The fact is that Julio was drafted and still was a huge part in the Falcons contending for a SB.

Remember what the winning percentage was in the 3 years before Julio arrived?

11+9+12=32/48= a number significantly bigger than 53%

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8 minutes ago, Dago said:

and like I said before....I serious doubt he lists that crushing loss as one of his accomplishments

 

When did I ever say he listed it as an accomplishment?

 

Question: Which one is better?

 

Going to a SB or never going to one at all?

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3 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

Patriots and Browns(for quite some time) are examples of the pros and cons of having a lot of draft capital. More swings at it are nice, but that's only if your GM is competent at drafting talent.

What position is the engine?

Ds3G6vgX4AA9ZRg.jpg

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1 minute ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

Remember what the winning percentage was in the 3 years before Julio arrived?

11+9+12=32/48= a number significantly bigger than 53%

 

Yes

 

But how many playoff games were won before Julio was drafted?

 

How many NFCCGs?

 

How many SB appearances?

 

Yes Falcons have had some down years, but Julio has been a key component to the most successful time in franchise history. The only thing that's missing is a SB championship.

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8 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

My position lacks merit?

 

Rewind back to my original post, how did me saying that had more success than Micheal Thomas has to do with players that the Falcons "potentially could've gotten" if they had kept those picks during the 2011 draft?

 

Patriots and Browns(for quite some time) are examples of the pros and cons of having a lot of draft capital. More swings at it are nice, but that's only if your GM is competent at drafting talent.

wow....you said a player drafted in 2011 has had more success than a player drafted in 2016

really went out on a limb there

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1 minute ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

Yes

 

But how many playoff games were won before Julio was drafted?

 

How many NFCCGs?

 

How many SB appearances?

 

Yes Falcons have had some down years, but Julio has been a key component to the most successful time in franchise history. The only thing that's missing is a SB championship.

What were Julio's numbers in his first playoff game?  First playoff win?

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4 minutes ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

What position is the engine?

Ds3G6vgX4AA9ZRg.jpg

 

I agree it's the QB, but no QB has won alone.

 

That is why I hate how some fans and the media think that Rodgers won that SB all by himself.

 

Rodgers had a crazy amount of talent at the WR position when he won the SB and a run game.

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2 minutes ago, Dago said:

wow....you said a player drafted in 2011 has had more success than a player drafted in 2016

really went out on a limb there

 

Man

 

I was trying to be a Saint hating asshole when I made the Julio/Thomas comparison lol.

 

I think you took that too seriously.

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1 hour ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

 

Remember, the 2011 draft was universally acknowledged as deep and talented, in addition to being held prior to free agency because of the labor shortage.

First mistake - at the end of the 2010 season, we had a long list of needs, but with 2010 All Pros White and Turner, along with 5 and soon 6 timer Gonzo, skill positions were not among said needs. 

Second mistake - misreading the talent in the 2011 draft.  History has shown that draft will be one of the best, if not the best, in the salary cap era, both top end and depth.  It was the absolute wrong draft to be dealing away picks

Third mistake - giving up all those selections to move up and missing out on the two best available players, both of whom, unlike Jones, played premium positions, positions of actual need for us, JJ Watt and Tyron Smith

Fourth Mistake - Not considering the trickle down effect no top draft picks would have on free agency, namely being forced to franchise Brent Grimes, sign Ray Edwards and resign Sam Baker, all of which hurt the team

Fifth mistake - Ignoring Jones documented injury history and how his physical style would limit his time on the field

Sixth mistake - With four players who could qualify as primary weapons, there wouldn't be nearly enough touches to optimize the value of each asset

Case study - The Pittsburgh Steelers.  Here is what the Steelers drafted in 2011-12, using picks that came shortly after each of the selections we had dealt away:

Rd. 1/2011 - Cameron Heyward - solid DE, key part of Steelers line, future All Pro

Rd. 2/2011 - Marcus Gilbert - top 15 rated ORT

Rd. 4/2011 - Cortez Allen - CB played well enough to earn decent contract, then washed out

Rd. 1/2012 - David DeCastro - 2 time All Pro OG - elite player

Rd. 4/2012 - Total miss

Anyone....Anyone who deludes themselves into believing Julio Jones, even as a future Hall of Famer, is worth that kind of player haul, simply doesn't understand football

 

 

Have to agree.

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1 minute ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

I agree it's the QB, but no QB has won alone.

 

That is why I hate how some fans and the media think that Rodgers won that SB all by himself.

 

Rodgers had a crazy amount of talent at the WR position when he won the SB and a run game.

and yet here you are saying that JJ has had more success than Thomas due to wins while ignoring the fact that JJ was drafted in 2011 as compared to 2016

that ain't no better bro

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Just now, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

Man

 

I was trying to be a Saint hating asshole when I made the Julio/Thomas comparison lol.

 

I think you took that too seriously.

so you admit you have no real point and are just talking out your ass

think we all figured that one out by now sparky

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1 hour ago, Dago said:

so you admit you have no real point and are just talking out your ass

think we all figured that one out by now sparky

 

No

 

It's seems like you got in your feelings about what I said hombre.

 

Julio is the better WR and has had more success. But Thomas is younger he may eventually have a HOF career of his own or not time will tell.

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2 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

I agree it's the QB, but no QB has won alone.

 

That is why I hate how some fans and the media think that Rodgers won that SB all by himself.

 

Rodgers had a crazy amount of talent at the WR position when he won the SB and a run game.

What was our team playing style in 2010?  Is it fair to say ball control to protect an undermanned defense?  How did blowing up 2 drafts for a WR enhance our strengths and mitigate our weaknesses?

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4 minutes ago, Dago said:

and yet here you are saying that JJ has had more success than Thomas due to wins while ignoring the fact that JJ was drafted in 2011 as compared to 2016

that ain't no better bro

 

Julio has had more success.

 

Hell, Thomas almost went to the SB last season.

 

No one is looking at Julio as the greatest WR of all time over Rice.

 

People were actually saying that Rodgers was the greatest QB of all time. Over Peyton .......over Montana.......over Brady.

 

Rodgers may not be better than Brees.

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13 minutes ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

What was our team playing style in 2010?  Is it fair to say ball control to protect an undermanned defense?  How did blowing up 2 drafts for a WR enhance our strengths and mitigate our weaknesses?

 

The Falcons were looking for an elite WR that could take the top off of a defense. They also wanted Roddy's eventual replacement.

 

Look at how differently teams played the Falcons once Julio is off the field.

 

Also, Smitty didn't really know what the hell he wanted on defense. He was a defensive minded coach but refused to draft edge rushers in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Smitty never had a clear vision for his defense once his defensive scheme was proven to be a dinosaur of it's time.

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4 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

Julio has had more success.

 

Hell, Thomas almost went to the SB last season.

 

No one is looking at Julio as the greatest WR of all time over Rice.

 

People were actually saying that Rodgers was the greatest QB of all time. Over Peyton .......over Montana.......over Brady.

 

Rodgers may not be better than Brees.

dude....you specifically used wins as a metric. I know, I know....now you claim you were joking (ironically you were the one making accusations of moving goalposts)

it is just asinine to compare two wide receivers who were drafted so many seasons apart. now if you want to be objective (which you dont), you would compare each players first 3 years

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Here's the bottom line.

A team doesn't give up 5 picks to move up into the top of Round 1 unless they absolutely feel the player is one of two things, a franchise QB or the final piece to a Super Bowl run.

Franchise QB is out of the window, so Jones was deemed the final piece.

Hindsight tells us it didn't work.

Jones is no doubt a great WR, but he wasn't the final piece.

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1 minute ago, Dago said:

dude....you specifically used wins as a metric. I know, I know....now you claim you were joking (ironically you were the one making accusations of moving goalposts)

it is just asinine to compare two wide receivers who were drafted so many seasons apart. now if you want to be objective (which you dont), you would compare each players first 3 years

 

You moved the discussion to draft capital of the Julio trade after I tried to take a shot at Thomas about Julio having more success so far in getting to a SB.

 

I didn't really care about when either was drafted.

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4 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

The Falcons were looking for an elite WR that could take the top off of a defense. They also wanted Roddy's eventual replacement.

 

Look at how differently teams played the Falcons once Julio is off the field.

 

Also, Smitty didn't really know what the hell he wanted on defense. He was a defensive minded coach but refused to draft edge rushers in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Smitty never had a clear vision for his defense once his defensive scheme was proven to be a dinosaur of it's time.

#5 ppg offense in 2010.  We needed ball control or defensive help.  That was our makeup.

You lose me at "Smitty made all the bad decisions and Dimitroff, all the good ones"

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1 minute ago, SaintRay said:

Here's the bottom line.

A team doesn't give up 5 picks to move up into the top of Round 1 unless they absolutely feel the player is one of two things, a franchise QB or the final piece to a Super Bowl run.

Franchise QB is out of the window, so Jones was deemed the final piece.

Hindsight tells us it didn't work.

Jones is no doubt a great WR, but he wasn't the final piece.

 

Smitty and TD actually did think that Julio was the final piece back then.

 

That's not a secret lol.

 

Smitty was shitty at building a defense because his scheme was outdated. Just ask Buc fans.

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6 minutes ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

#5 ppg offense in 2010.  We needed ball control or defensive help.  That was our makeup.

You lose me at "Smitty made all the bad decisions and Dimitroff, all the good ones"

 

I never said TD made the good decisions. He and Smitty were in collaboration.

 

Which was why I never bought into the "more is better" look at the 2011 draft.

 

Smitty was unsure of what he wanted and it showed. Drafting got better under Quinn with a clear cut plan for TD to follow.

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54 minutes ago, Dago said:

and like I said before....I serious doubt he lists that crushing loss as one of his accomplishments

He feels he was under utilized in that sb i think he let T.O get into his ear thaats why i dont defend him anymore

 

Any way its all amatter of opinion some are craving the duds we laid before julio some like HoF players that 

 take you to the cusp of greatness

 

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1 minute ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

Smitty and TD actually did think that Julio was the final piece back then.

Let's remember Green was the preferred choice

That's not a secret lol.

Kudos to FFS1970 for being one of the few to realize the folly

Smitty was shitty at building a defense because his scheme was outdated. Just ask Buc fans.

Spending all your premium picks at WR sure didn't help

Smitty had his faults, but I can't imagine him sitting in the war room, pleading to blow our load on WR.

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8 minutes ago, Handsome_Jimmy said:

#5 ppg offense in 2010.  We needed ball control or defensive help.  That was our makeup.

You lose me at "Smitty made all the bad decisions and Dimitroff, all the good ones"

 

Also, Smitty and TD believed that the Falcons offense couldn't keep up with the Saints, Packers, and the other elite offenses because the Falcons were a ball control offense but couldn't build a good enough defense to complement it.

 

They tried to equip themselves for shootouts.

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